Do you believe that bacteria are swimming around the environment just waiting to get into your body and make you ill? Are you afraid of food-borne pathogens or raw milk? And do you actually believe the government cares about your health and is working to protect it?
Max Kane is a raw milk advocate who also eats raw meat, and in this interview he explains what’s wrong with the bacteria-cause-disease paradigm and what’s really creating many of our illnesses. Max describes how Crohn’s disease was destroying his body and how he regained his health.
Max also talks about the struggles he’s facing because of his involvement in the raw milk movement and how the Department of Agriculture has branded him a threat to society. He’s extremely passionate and articulate about our Constitutional rights, and he refuses to give those up despite government coercion and threat of imprisonment.
Max is one of those rare individuals willing to risk it all on our behalf, and this is one interview you just shouldn’t miss.
Total time: 40 minutes.
Interview
Click to hear interview or right-click to download MP3 file
Bio
After reversing advanced degenerative illness through unprocessed, whole food nutrition, Max Kane has engaged the individual rights movement with a tremendous amount of momentum. He travels the U.S. speaking about food freedom and is currently in a lawsuit with the Wisconsin Department of Justice and Wisconsin Department of Agriculture. More information about the suit can be found at rawmilkparty.com.
Transcript
Links in Interview
We Want to Live
The Recipe for Living Without Disease
Pottenger’s Cats
{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }
That’s wonderful that Max has done so well with a raw diet. I agree that having raw and fermented foods can be helpful in the diet, and historically people have usually had some form of them in their diet. Funny how, not long ago, yogurt was viewed as disgusting and rotten because of the bacteria in it, and now it’s in every grocery store.
And raw milk can sometimes be ‘cleaner’ than pasteurized milk. That was found in California with one of the certified raw milk dairies.
That said, when I researched what Aajonus Vonderplanitz advises I also have his books), it didn’t add up very well. I know a lot of people who truly got sick doing what he does and they were diligent, not waivering from his teachings. Then they were slammed by Aajonus for bringing up concerns. But I’m open to the fact that some people may fare better than others on this, of course, I just caution people about following Aajonus.
I haven’t read his books yet. And I can’t quite make myself to eat raw meat at this time. I’m just happy to be learning how to cook meat
I should learn how to make a decent steak, but keep putting it off.
I would have made a great long term vegetarian if it was actually healthy for me! There aren’t many vegetables that I don’t like, but with meat, I’m picky beyond belief! 
It is so sad that people like Lillea Woodlyns continue and escalate rumors as she did above. People are sick because of industrial toxins not foods so there is no way my diet could have made people sick. She has no direct experience and knows nothing about which she is speaking. If you research my work, you will find 95% positive results with thousands of people. I suggest that you listen to Max’s interview above many times if you want the truth about health, diet and disease.
What Aajonus is trying to (above) is that Lillea is just putting down the diet. She is most likely referring to the use of high meat, fesces, rotten eggs, etc. She most likely knows absolutely nobody who has suffered because of the diet, period. Not a single person. She is most likely just going off of/referring to Harley Johnstone’s aka durianrider’s fairy tale of an acquaintance in Australia who had nasty symptoms/detox on the diet, listened to the ignorant Stanley Bass/Natural Hygienists, and water fasted to stop detox right in the middle of it. This caused her to become dehydrated and she died. But the diet did not kill her. Fasting, which dehydrated her on a cellular level (water is barely utilizable) is what killed her. And if it weren’t for chemicals and other toxins she was actually detoxing, she’d have never needed to detox in the first place. And if she hadn’t tryed to clean out when she did, she may have eventually ended up with chronic disease such as heart disease or cancer.
Regardless, the diet is beneficial to everyone. I strongly recommend Lillea put her money where her mouth is and actually try the diet before she makes any judgements. I’ve been on it for 3 1/2 months. And I have no plans of going back. It’s amazing how cynical (and sometimes but not always, jealous) people are towards aajonus. Stop looking for or making up flaws in his achievements. Try to spend time being proactive instead of trying to tarnish the names of other people.
I’ve been following Aajonus’ Primal Diet for 2 1/2 years. It has helped me tremendously and I have no intention of stopping it. However, I do need to make a comment about detoxing: over the time I’ve been following the diet, I have had several instances during which, without a high degree of familiarity with and confidence and faith in Aajonus’ teachings, one would have easily identified me as having “truly gotten sick,” as Lillea put it. For instance, a week and a half ago I had 20 hours of roughly continuous debilitating stomach pain (with vomiting at the beginning of it), and it looks like I’ve just today (hopefully) come out the other end of a particularly intense 2-day descent into such a period. I identify these experiences as (ultimately beneficial) detoxifications, but that doesn’t change their unpleasantness and scariness, and I think people that embark on this diet need to be prepared for the fact that sometimes for short periods of time your subjective experience of health has to get worse before it gets better. It took a lot of discernment and experimentation for me to find remedies that even somewhat mitigated the pain I was experiencing, and they only somewhat mitigated them until finally the detoxification had run its course. I feel lucky to be getting through this experience, and I can understand how some people panic and go to the hospital or take other such drastic, harmful measures.
Why do I bring all of this up? Because I think the Primal Diet community needs more mutual support to help each other through such challenging periods – and several such initiatives are happening, such as http://primaldiet.ning.com and http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2300504520 . I hope to contribute to such initiatives myself. Also, Aajonus, I hope you don’t mind me saying: perhaps more people would seek the support they need from you in such times if you charged less than $350 for a 40 minute phone consultation, and then those people would end up staying on the diet and we’d have fewer “rumors” out in the world. The $350 charge has so far deterred me from seeking your direct guidance at a time when I could’ve greatly benefited from it, though I have gone to your workshop and gotten a min-consult from you. In any case, I thank you for all you’ve done and I respect your freedom to charge any price you want for your services.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. It seems I’ve hit a nerve. I was expressing what I discovered as I did my best to research claims about this in a number of places – resources I had back when I was a WAPF chapter leader.
I can see why people might feel defensive because I pointed out that it didn’t add up and learned about people who did not react positively to the diet (but not the ones mentioned above by Louise – I knew of those people, but that’s not what I was referring to).
A 95% success rate is incredible. If that is meticulously documented and the lab results are all there and can be verified, then that is excellent. That is what I’ve never been satisfied about. I wonder if Aajonus would be willing to submit the data to a scientist like Chris Masterjohn. He would judge it fairly most likely.
And, really, I am genuinely happy for anyone who has done well eating this way.
But you know, the presumptions and shaming statement in Louise’s last paragraph is not necessary to further the cause. If I came across as doing this simply to slam others, no way, that’s not my intention. I seek the truth, and something just didn’t add up. So just prove the people who have concerns 100% wrong. I will not try the diet 100% until I have enough evidence that it’s a good idea for me to try it. I think that’s how we take care of ourselves, finding what makes the most sense to us in our lives.
Honestly, this is almost humorous to me because I’m the kind of person who everyone likes quite well. LOL
I also take exception to Louise’s comment that Stanley Bass and hygienists are ignorant. They’ve done a great service to humanity in helping people to be self-determining and free of the superstition that is modern medicine, and their practitioners have helped untold numbers heal from debilitating diseases. I owe a lot of my own health to what I learned from natural hygienists. I part ways with them when it comes to diet.
Brian, how do you know your stomach issues weren’t food poisoning instead of detox?
@Joanne: I’ve eaten raw meat almost every day for the last 2 1/2 years. Sometimes (as a type of “supplementary” practice) I even ate “high” rotten meat that, according to conventional thinking, would certainly put me at high risk of food poisoning. I got no such symptoms of food poisoning any of the times I ate “high” meat. I only got such symptoms a handful of the days I ate regular raw meat – we can estimate the occurrence as less than 1% of the days that I ate raw meat (as I usually ate raw meat more than once every day). (Less than 9 times in approximately 900 days.) These occurrences seemed to come of their own accord, independent of the particular things I ate (with a caveat in the next paragraph). Furthermore, the pain would generally migrate at some point from my stomach to one or both shoulders. Have you ever heard of food poisoning doing this? How can we attribute food poisoning to eating raw meat when it occurs so unreliably?
Aajonus offers a much more sensible (to me) explanation for such experiences: that the body can, from time to time in an attempt to detox, dump toxins into the stomach. These toxins can cause pain before they’re eliminated. Vomit (along with diarrhea, both of which I experienced some of) provide a good opportunity for the body to remove these toxins. The body goes through cycles of detox on its own rhythm and according to its own wisdom. One thing that does sometimes seem to increase the likelihood of stomach pain due to detox for me: not eating much raw fat with meat. Raw fat (butter, cream, coconut cream, unsalted raw cheese, avocado, etc.) helps cushion the impact of and absorb toxins, facilitating their elimination. Some of the days that I experienced stomach pain from detoxification, I happened to eat little or no raw fat with the raw meat, and that may have made it a bit more likely that I would experience stomach pain if toxins had dumped into my stomach.
In any case, I’m not just blindly following Aajonus: it FEELS like a detoxification because it more likely happens after I’ve been eating 100% raw food for an extended period of time and because I feel significantly better afterwards than I did before – refreshed and more fully alive.
But most importantly, what does Max Kane say in this article??? Do you believe that “The Theory That Bacteria Cause Illness Is a Myth” or not? I mean, I haven’t actually read it, unfortunately, as I haven’t subscribed to your site (and don’t even see a ready link to how much it costs, though I probably wouldn’t pay it anyway just to read one interview), but I’ve read similar ideas in other places to those alluded to in the interview’s description and I agree with them. How do YOU know that eating raw meat causes food poisoning? What exactly do you mean by “food poisoning”? By what mechanism is it caused? I’m not trying to be coy here, I’m actually a bit surprised by your question, as I figured that this interview would’ve addressed it. As far as I’m concerned, whatever bacteria or other baddy in raw meat that’s supposed to cause food poisoning, doesn’t. I suppose if the meat actually contained POISON, then sure… (check out http://www.wewant2live.com/site/811618/page/822785 )
I leave “food poisoning” from eating cooked food as another issue, but I have a theory that many or most supposed food poisoning cases from eating raw food actually result from detoxifications that people don’t understand and then panic about. But sometimes the body has to get worse before it gets better. A simple example: I have some raw unsalted cheese from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania. When I have it in supply, I eat it every day and love it. One day my mother, who’s in her 60s and eats a slightly healthy S.A.D. and has been taking 3-10 prescription drugs for decades, ate a little bit of that cheese, and told me that she had some relatively intense diarrhea soon after. Are you going to tell me that she got food poisoning from it? She probably even would say it too (at least a mild case of it). But it seems obvious to me that her body went through a mild detoxification that she didn’t understand – and amazingly so, just from eating a little bit of cheese – her body must really want to detox! Otherwise, I should be getting such symptoms every time I eat the stuff! I suppose you’d say my stomach has developed a “hardiness” or resistance to it (MOST of the time???). But isn’t it possible that we have things bass-ackwards, as this very interview purportedly says???
For me it’s not that the meat is raw that is the problem. It’s the parasites that come along with uncooked (or unfrozen…read sushi) meat that are the real problem.
Brian, I don’t know why you’d be surprised by my question. That is, after all, what I do at Joanne Unleashed.
I do believe that the view that bacteria cause disease is a myth. But I also believe that the health of the body determines whether bacteria finds a suitable environment for proliferation. Sick people will get sick from bacteria, because their bodies are toxic and their immune systems can’t get the job done. Healthy bodies provide no substrate upon which harmful bacteria can flourish.
But bacteria aren’t the only things that make people sick. You could have been poisoned by toxins in the meat, which wouldn’t matter if it was raw or cooked. My question is how do you determine the difference between detox and poisoning?
Aajonus himself says that detox occurs primarily through the skin (a view I don’t necessarily agree with), and yet here you are after a couple years eating raw detoxing into your stomach. Maybe that is truly what’s happening. But since Aajonus is a “show me” type of guy, then it’s not unreasonable for me to be a show me type of girl.
How is it that these so-called toxins that most likely entered your body through your stomach are now again in your stomach but causing pain and vomiting? If lack of fat to escort the toxins out is the reason, why did fat previously in the diet not prevent the toxins from absorption in the first place?
I must say that the responses to comments about this diet seem to be proving Lillea’s point that questioning its tenants is met with aggression.
I am a vegetarian and I eat lots of raw veggies and fruits and Ive never felt better in my life,if people want to get healthy this is the way they should go.
A diet consisting of 95% rotten meat -YUK! I would rather die than put this filth into my body its disgusting and downright dangerous. Ive seen this guy and he doesnt look healthy at all.I would like to know how many people have become seriously ill or died as a result of following this nonsense.The evidence is all anecdotal there is no science to back it up. Any so called health benefits will be short lived for sure,a diet so high in acid forming foods will result in all kinds of health problems in the long run,these people dont know what theyre getting into.Rotten teeth (Vonderplanitz does not look like he has his own teeth),bad breath,kidney and liver problems,heart disease,stroke to name but a few,these people will not live long and healthy lives they will die prematurely.
By the way I know someone who DIED from eating undercooked meat so please do not tell me theres no such thing as harmful bacteria.
Katie, were you this strident, judgmental, and self-righteous before becoming a vegetarian? Or is this a new look for you?
“Rotten meat,” “filth,” “disgust.” These are, of course, subjective judgments, not objective truths. And most people eating raw meat are not eating it fermented (what you call rotten). They’re eating it fresh or thawed from a frozen state.
Before judging Vonderplanitz, you should listen to his interview. He had multiple cancers and was dying before turning to a raw meat diet. And here he is decades past his death sentence. You’ll never convince him that he’s going to get sick from it.
And I know vegetarians and vegans who have died from their diets and plenty who have gotten sick. Visit any paleo, primal, or raw meat community and you’ll meet thousands who switched from the vegetarian diet because their health failed.
I don’t think we need science to back up the benefits of a raw meat diet since we have millions of years of evolution to attest to its efficacy. Please, before you spout off again, listen to the interviews first and then try to be respectful when making comments on other people’s blogs.
Hi Joanne, wow, where have you been all my life? Looking foward to more and to listening to this interview. We are recent converts to the WAPF way of life and our health has improved already. My husband is the cook, he’s got a big chunk of meat in the freezer now (freezing for two weeks to kill any possible parasites). A whole new world!
I’ve been here, there, and a few other places
Welcome to the world of whole, natural foods. I bought two freezers over a year ago and filled them with pasture-raised beef, pork, and lamb. And I used to promote the raw vegan diet as the ultimate diet for health. How’s that for a turnaround? I hope you enjoy the interviews.
I was a vegan for two years until I met my husband, the chef. He made me a meal with heavy cream and butter (I didn’t know what was in it)… I thought I’d died and gone to heaven. More soon!
FYI, that wasn’t Aajonus. That was myself speaking from my own perception of the point of view of Aajonus. Aajonus does not check these sorts of things, nor use online social media as he doesn’t have the time, he’s a very busy fellow. So remember that the above comment as Aajonus was the equivalent of an impressions and in good fun, not a serious aajonus statement. Peace.
And there is no assistant Louise. That was also me trying to further make my point. the point that I eat raw and even rotten animals foods, and that you shouldn’t go around drawing conclusions until you’ve actually given this diet a shot as well. And sorry Brian for accidentally deceiving you into thinking I was aajonus. He’ll never lower that price, it’ll only go up as the years go on. And rotten meat is much better tasting than rotten kefir. Even week old super-rotted kefir makes me pucker and say “yuck” while high meat does nothing of the sort. But rotten eggs are where the risk of detoxing hard is heightened. Be careful with the century eggs!
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